General Discussion Thread #13

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Note: Original post date published on:  Mar 31, 2009 @ 8:11
Post date changed to 12/01/08 for filing and archive purposes only.


95 Responses

  1. Mr. Menard– You should be commended for what appears to be a case of being at the right place at the right time on the night that you believe you encountered the perp. That certainly sounds like a significant event. Have you driven through those events again to better recreate the timing? You must know where you were on Lacour when you first spotted the truck. You must also know how fast you were going on Lacour Road and you must know how fast you went east on Hwy 1126. It seems to me if it took you less time from the corner of Lacour Road to reach the turnoff for Castex landing than it took you to go from your starting point to the corner of Lacour and Hwy 1126, then it is likely the perp took that turnoff. Imagine for a moment. The perp has just been spotted. He turns off his lights (a detail you mention in your news interview, but not repeated here ), turns arounds and runs away. When he gets to the corner of Lacour and Hwy 1126, he has to make a difficult decision. Does he lead his pursuer farther away from home or closer to home? For whatever reason, he turns to the east. We assume he is speeding, but the longer he has to speed, then the greater the chance of someone else spotting him. Did the perp get a look at his pursuer’s vehicle? Does his pursuer’s vehicle look like it could be a law enforcement vehicle? The perp has to deal with the possibility that someone else may be headed by another route to where Hwy 90 and Hwy 1126 intersect. When the perp reaches the Castex landing turnoff, he has another difficult choice to make. Does he turn down a dead end road and risk being trapped or does he continue toward Hwy 90 and risk being intercepted? The answer may be in the math. The answer may also be in what he thinks you think he will do. Also, the answer may in what he thinks a person would do knowing only that his vehicle was last seen headed east on Hwy 1126. He makes his choice, but which is it? Next, you reach the turnoff point, but we know from your account that you did not take the turnoff, but continued on to Hwy 90. Did you slow down for even a moment? Are there places at that turnoff that the perp could have reached, stopped his vehicle, and waited for you to pass so that he could turn back toward Lacour ? ( You mentioned generally that the Castex landing area was very dark) If the Castex landing area is where the perp lived, would he really lead his pursuer in that direction at first? The whole point of this exercise is to try to figure out whether the perp lives east, south, west or north of this possible encounter. Surely forensics has been able to determine how long Brittney Gary’s body had been off of Keystone Road before being discovered. Was it a secondary dropoff point when the preferred site was not available? What does you geographic profiler think of your possible encounter?

    • Which murders and/or incidents took place in the Castex Landing area in the past? Maybe several years ago. How about the Hussier Park area? Do any rural/country locations ring a bell from past incidents? Perpetrators revisit places and processes that have worked for them in the past. They also share information with one another. People … I’ve mentioned before and I truly believe that the more we focus upon only these murders, “seven bodies”, “seven victims”, “seven murders”, the more we lose focus on the big picture that will lead to the resolution of these seven. Think outside the box. These murders are a reverberation of past incidents. We must go back many years to understand something … There have been far more unsolved murders in the past. Why do these from the past remain unsolved today and what was their cause? When we go back and figure out that, I believe we will be lead to the resolution of the seven most recent and more importantly, why they remain unsolved, just as so many from the past are so well covered up and unsolved. Personally, I have no doubt that these seven are related to past murders. Not neccessarily by the same perp and not for the same exact reason, but, connected to the same cause. The reason for cover-up is, to me, the same reason that so many from the past remain unsolved. Our local drug culture has built more than wealth and position for a few. It has also built ruination, fear, paranoia, jealousy and resentment. There are people who will do anything to isolate themselves from their past and present affiliations. I’ve mentioned before that the drug industry (and other dark industries) have produced money in quantities that the local citizen can’t conceive of and it obviously hasn’t gone into the pockets of local drug addicts. What is the network of international, interstate transportation, warehousing and distribution? We’re talking about very large quantities that have to be marketed carefully and slowly while they are physically available to the marketers. I don’t think Tyrone on the corner curb is managing this enterprise with several kilos of cocaine or hundreds of pounds of pot in his bedroom. How much trouble is it to get rid of people and cover up the activity when you have access to millions of dollare and hundreds of desperate drug addicts? Honestly, if a local person is acting alone and is a user and affiliated with the low-level drug crowd, he/she hasn’t got the skill to murder that many and remain free without competent, professional help in the cover-ups. The same is true for all of those from the past. Someone needs to really put a few people in the corner and ask uncomfortable questions that go back longer than we expect. Think outside the box.

      • This brings to mind the Houston Connection- the three particular black men that showed up at the celebration party- (who knows if someone out of state has not done the killing), the past cover ups as you mentioned, calling the coroner from out of town for an autopsy never providing results to family, the lack of drug convictions and turning a left cheek at the south side crimes that take place, etc.

        You are correct that someone with funds may be calling all the shots here, and it does very well take more than Joe the plumber to handle larger crimes as in trafficking both drugs and women.

        This case does have some issues that appear much deeper than discovered so far.

        Yet, we still have the ‘keep it simple’ theory!!!

  2. You had an ex-mechanic with you right? Okay, he who worked on vehicles a while should have an idea of what kind of truck it was, usually by the shape of the lights. Besides, you guys are men. You guys specialize in that, huh? LOL. Just joking. I’m speaking from experience through my husband. He can spot the older model vehicles quickly, but the newer ones sometimes takes a few more seconds.

  3. You mean Dallas Cormier days or futher back?

    • Before and including the Cormier days. A torch is always carried and can’t be dropped, especially in Jeff Davis Parish where powerful people can’t seem to stand strong and say no. We know that corruption is a way of life in our parish and has been for generations. It’s sickening when we turn a deaf ear to the obvious truth. We shouldn’t close our minds just because a serial (or sequence) has apparently been utilized in these murders. Any killer(s) who can evade the public for several years would be wise enough to use the appearance of sequential murders just to accomplish and cover one or two that were performed for more substantive reasons. I say “evade the public” because I truly believe that local officials are not being fooled or misled at all. After all, what better place to hide a valuable diamond than in a bucket of worthless ice? That’s why the sheriff is always ready to discount killings and events to “high risk lifestyle” and “drug related” descriptions. It throws cold water on the public’s interest and compassion. Who was first to arrive and digest (and possibly contaminate, stage or rearrange) the crime scene in every case before higher, qualified entities arrived? There seems to be little or no forensic evidence available from the crime scenes except excuses like bodies soaked in this or doused in that or decomposed beyond discernible …….. I find that remarkable. Remember when the drugs were stolen from the evidence room years ago (back in the days when they had to take it off of the streets)? Have you ever cut sheet metal with a saw? It sounds like the Earth is being ripped apart; however, no one at the sheriff’s department heard a sound when the evidence room was cut into. That’s just one of many examples of how teamwork can be so very effective. Even 24 hour per day dispatchers (who don’t earn much) heard nothing. I don’t want to think that high officials are involved but c-mon! How many unsolved crimes of every sort? For how many years? I’m nearly sixty and can’t remember a time when there wasn’t plenty of corruption to go around and that was before the huge drug market really opened up. Like Forest gump said, “I’m not a smart man, but” …….

  4. Thanks cp and brownie. Yes he identified it as a truck by the tail lights and appeared an older model but don’t quote us on that.

    g8trgirl actually gave us a good idea. I have an investigator friend in New York that may be able to use google earth real time to go back in time and obtain specific dates and times when the bodies were dumped we may be able to obtain a vehicle description or even the dumping of the bodies. He is working on that as this time. I don’t know why I didn’t think of it sooner but he’s used it successfully in the past. Also, the United States Coast Guard has satellite imaging but we are trying to find out if its just in navigatiable waters or throughout the United States to see if they can go back in time. I’ll tell more later.

    • Just a heads up the US Army Corps of Engineers is in charge of all wetlands/waterways, they may be able to provide you info on surveillance in the area, if any is available. I’m a little confused though, was there an arrest made recently or a new lead?

      • Thanks Patrick. I work with engineers with the USACE, most recently on the building of the $700 million hurricane wall in New Orleans and I am speaking with them but the problem is they would need their commanders permission from Washington, DC but I do have someone working on that as well.

  5. That will be interesting to hear the outcome. I bet the killer(s) are pooting in their pants with your post menard.

    • Well brownie, the investigator in New York can triangulate cell phone signals and has real time satellite imaging similar to google earth but not quite, its more enhanced that allows a look back through certain dates and times. He chooses a satellite that may have been in that position at that time. I also contacted the Commander with the United States Coast Guard and asked them to see if one of their satellites might have been covering that area. The USCG’s satellite imaging is used for the discovery of oil spills. The investigator in New York has used his satellite imaging software successfully on past crimes in New York. I have someone obtaining the exact latitude and longitude of each location where the bodies were placed, keep your fingers crossed. The commander stated he will go over the dates, I emailed me all the dates the bodies were found and he also needs the latitude and longitude so we are gathering that information now.

  6. U.S. Geological Survey
    Freedom of Information Act
    Electronic Reading Room

    EarthNow! Landsat Image Viewer

    Another good place – well at least another place.

    • The investigator friend from New York has real time satellite imaging but only if one of the orbiting satellites was in that position at that given moment. He is trying different dates and times and using the process of elimination. We are starting with Keystone Road since its the most recent and then Lacour road and then bobby road and also Racca road.

    Some of the families discussed having fundraisers to raise extra money to be added to the $35,000 reward. Some feel as if more money may bring more answers. So guys, here’s what we’ve come up with:
    WE have contacted someone to draw up an idea for a t-shirt. The t-shirts will be sold by the families and hopefully this will bring in a little something extra to add to the money already offered and in a strange way, I think it helps us (the families) feel as if we are doing something. So here’s the idea, the t-shirt design is not set in stone but will be something on the front like “A COMMUNITY COMING TOGETHER FOR JUSTICE”….the back will have all 7 girls’ pictures and the dates when they were found…When the design is printed up and decided on, we will begin taking orders for sizes! Please spread the word and let me know your opinions on the shirts and if you think they might sell!


  8. Wonderful idea. I’d buy some.
    Consider adding after justice Jennings, LA. That way when we were them in another town/city/state it would reflect where.

  9. Brittany,Count me in! I wouldn’t mind setting up in front of the local stores here, to sell on the weekends either! Just let me know what we all can do to help!

  10. Brittany, I think it’s definitely an idea worth taking a shot at!!

    You could ask people that purchase them to wear them particularly on the anniversary dates each girl was found. They could also be worn to any special gatherings or meetings such as the Mother’s Day Tribute coming up in May.

    Of course people could wear them anytime they chose as well but I think that would be a nice tribute to the girls as well as a reminder to all in the community and elsewhere.

    I’ve been thinking a lot recently that perhaps the reward should be increased….at least doubled. Does anyone know if the fund was established by the parish or if it’s state funded?

  11. The reward was state funded.
    Brittany, Just my opinion, but I thought the front of the shirt could show great strenth by saying,UNITED WE ARE STRONG, with Jennings LA. under that. It’s only a suggestion. I hope it to be a success.

    • mysterious,
      i think that sounds like a good idea and we definately want everyone’s input on it. You are welcome to join us in looking at a sample and finalizing the orders! All of the families are encouraged to participate. We are in this together! I think the shirts will be a success in the community and in our hearts as well! We need this for ourselves, we need to know that we can help too.

  12. Oh, and thanks everyone for the replies. That lets me know that the idea will be a smash! I knew you guys would come through!!

    • Brittany- I think that’s a great idea! If you could talk to the right people they might donate money and maybe even a space in all the local newspapers to advertise the sell of the shirts! Many people want to help but they don’t know how so here’s their chance to help. Spread the word, talk to local new stations and see about adverising your shirt sell there as well! With a little help you can make this happen! People hate what is going on and they will want to help and speaking for most of those people, I would be one that would purchase some shirts so if you need some help or guidance just ask! If we don’t know the information you need we’ll find it out for you! Good Luck and keep us posted!

  13. Has anyone looked into the other girls cell phones. Did they have a cell phone? Was there a cell phone around the area there bodies were found? If they did have a cell phone did the sheriff office ping it like they did with Brittney Gary cell phone, we do know that she had one she was getting Minutes for her cell phone at the Family Dollar store the day she went missing. I have only heard about Brittney cell phone and nothing if the other girls had one. If they did is there any way to check these phone’s to see if any calls were made after the girls went missing? Just wondering about this. Just a idea to play around with. Any thoughts on this??

  14. Do you by any chance know if any of the other girls had one?

    • If I had to guess, I would say no, none of the girls owned cell phones, but britney. None of the vicitms’ families ever mentioned anything about a cell phone in my presence.

  15. Mr. Menard– The satellite imaging sounds very promising, and I hope it pans out well, but if it does not, then I hope you can let us know what your geographic profiler thinks of your close encounter on Lacour Road.

  16. Brittany,

    What about asking the businesses for donations. Like Super Foods, they are always hopping, Chiropractors, Dentists, Medicals Doctors, Law Firms. When one is in an accident they hire an attorney and he/she refers them to a dentist if teeth are damaged, refers to chiropractors if body hurts, refers to medical doctors if they need anti-inflammatories, and everybody spends money at the super foods. Ask them to give some what the public has given them. Wouldn’t that be tax deductible if they did?

    • brownie….I don’t believe that type of donation would be considered tax deductible….to get a charitable tax deduction, your donations generally need to be made to a non-profit §501(c)(3) charitable organization.

      Of course the companies could still make donations though :).

  17. If any gatherings to sell t-shirts to raise money to up the reward were sponsored and run by a legitimate charity with a 501c3 tax status, any donations of shirts, printing, etc would be tax deductable. It would have to be organized and run through the charity. There seem to be a number of churches locally that have showed an interest in helping. If you speak with the pastors that have stepped up, they can walk you through how it could be done, if it can.

    Be sure and keep good records of all monies coming in and out. A lot of us saw misuse of funds in a famous case happening in Orlando right now involving a mother killing her child. The family now makes a living off of the notoriety of the childs death. To protect yourself from any questions of impropriety it would be better to let the charity handle all money. Good luck.

  18. Sleuthing888,
    You have a very organized, analytical mind. I would like to hear your thoughts on how many killers may be involved. I know information is limited to help with this but I would love to hear you kick it around a little. Also, do you think all of the dumpers are the same person?

  19. why are there so many rumors of these murders being multiple people?…i mean come on….i think this poi did at least 5 of them for sure…..

    …the “multi poi thoeries” makes it harder to claim the money……..sad but true….

  20. Hey db,
    The killer shows both traits of being an organized and an unorganized serial killer. This would seem to point to more than one person. I am adding a Wiki link that is about SK’s. It has a section on the differences between organized and unorganized SK’s. It is a pretty good read.

    As far as the money claiming, I am just old enough to remember when people did the right thing because it was the right thing to do. I now wonder how much reward it will take to get someone to step up. I bet several people know the whole story.

    • my opinion is everyone here should keep this poi simple….this person is not smart…..he only acts with his fight/flight and the path of least resistance from time to time he does this…their is no training school on how to be an sk….this sk like many other criminals is only using his wits to escape detection…….even the dumbest moron is capable of this…..remember keep this low life where he is ….keep it simple…. sticking to my guns…he does not live in jennings….in fact i believe he has a 25 mile radius….at least….that he lives at least 25 miles away…….i do think this person chose jennings cause of some type of ties here from the past….

    • I totally agree that someone knows who, what, when and where and they are not telling. Please remember some of these girls knew they were in danger…this tells alot.

      They knew things someone or more did not want known, jmo. This would mean others knew….

      I turned in my own brother twice…twice. The first time- he got ten years, and now the death penalty. Family knows when a member is ill, criminal, not right, has been up to no good… does not mean you have to keep family secrets…..this don’t fly. Not an excuse. We are talking about lives here. There are no excuses.

      Believe me, it was not easy. You can let turning in a family member haunt you or you can know in your heart and soul that you did what was right, and crime was halted. No one else will be harmed/killed/hurt because the criminal is off the streets – related or not- and that they are responsible for thier behavior, and you are responsible for yours.

      Whomever can help solve this crime- it should not be about a reward (not knocking a reward- for that is a great enticer for someone to come forward). It should be about doing what is morally correct, and stopping others from being harmed. It should be about doing what is right by the families that have lost loved ones and allowing the victims to have justice for thier untimely deaths. They had a right to live thier lives, and this was taken from them. This is the sad part and I, a stranger even, am so sorry for these young ladies, and thier families-as you should be also.

      I appeal to whomever knows and/ or is related to the culprit(s), NO MATTER who they are- to come forward and make them answer for thier actions.

      Reach down in your own soul- and ask if you are on the criminals side and okay with more deaths, and if you want to go down with them or not.

      There are other choices here, and that is to be responsible for your own behavior- not to mention, Salvation. PLEASE START TALKING.

    I received an email today from a writer from “The Times of Southwest Louisiana”. Hes doing a story on the 7 murders and has an interview schelduled with Ricky Edwards for 9am tommorrow. I will be giving him an interview as well following Ricky’s. I will make sure to let you all know when the story runs! Wish me luck! Hopefully it will get some info out there! Public Exposure…Im always game!

    • Wow!!!…..that’s great news!!!!

      My thoughts will be with you as you do the interview. I have absolutely no doubt in my mind that you are the one to do the interviews…..I was just relistening to one you were on when the sheriff was announcing the task force formation…..when he started stuttering after you asked him a few questions.

      Please let us know when the article comes out.

  22. This case is serial killings. Whether it is one person who acts alone or one person who has coverage or two or more with or without coverage. These are not spree or thrill killings just because of the timing. The victims are not mega business executives or drug dealers where a money motive is imperative.

    The vulnerability of the victims is the overall theme. Break it down to whom would benefit these crimes financially…no one. So, the next step is to decide if this is killing for psychological reasons or some sort of sick game. Again, that would be psychological too but could involve a ring, for lack of a better word.

    I frankly don’t see major important political figures involved unless one of them has a dark past or secret. Then, all bets are off.

  23. To Kirk Menard…I want to applaud your every effort and dedication to this case. You are and have been going above and beyond the call of duty, you too g8, and all those assisting.

    Brittany- your idea for a shirt is so great. You are the Best. Your sister would be so very proud of your efforts, not only to help her, but all the other victims and families you will be representing. The interview is wonderful too. you should get the sister of the year award—-Everyone should have a sister with so much love.

    Yall have me crying today….happy and sad tears for all the efforts you guys have made.

    I can see Kirk will stop at nothing to solve this crime—you are great.

    • Ive been absent from here for a few days so I will try my best to address everyone I missed.

      Thank you so very much for your compliments and kind words. I was having a bad day and your post made me smile. Kind people like you is what keeps me going and gives me strength. I will always fight for justice for my sister as well as the other 6 girls.

      To everyone with t-shirt ideas, we are trying to make as many as them as possible happen. I think its very important to have the community’s input on this because we are uniting as a community to solve this horrific crime! Thanks to you all!

  24. Red Ranger– I will have to think awhile about your questions regarding how many are responsible for the murders etc. , but I will say for now that I tend to agree with db’s statement to keep it simple. That same thought has been expressed in a number of ways:

    Occam’s (or Ockham’s) razor is a principle that states “Entities should not be multiplied unnecessarily.”
    Occam’s razor is often cited in stronger forms than Occam intended, as in the following statements. . .

    “If you have two theories that both explain the observed facts, then you should use the simplest until more evidence comes along”

    “The simplest explanation for some phenomenon is more likely to be accurate than more complicated explanations.”

    “If you have two equally likely solutions to a problem, choose the simplest.”

    “The explanation requiring the fewest assumptions is most likely to be correct.”

    . . .or in the only form that takes its own advice. . .
    “Keep things simple!”

    The final word is of unknown origin, although it’s often attributed to Einstein, himself a master of the quotable one liner:

    “Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler.”

  25. Observer-Thanks for the kind words, it means a lot and the strength of the parish is what keeps us going and the strength of supporters for the victims’ families keep them going as well, just ask Brittany. And you’re right, I’ve said it on the news interviews that my investigators nor myself will not stop at nothing until this case is solved. We ride in the “high risk” neighborhoods night and day observing for any suspicious behavior. This is a team effort and if our clients’ observe anything they call us and let us know and we respond accordingly.

    I will say this….this site has assisted our clients’ to get stronger and carry on the fight for justice for Loretta, Ernestine, Kristen, Shay, Muggy, Brittney, and Whitnei. I know that LE takes a lot of hits and criticism but the task force, including our main contact and yes including the sheriff, does support our involvement and has begun following up on leads that we provide.

    Just an update, we are having some luck with satellite imaging and I spoke to New York this morning and they are coming up with images of some vehicles that were in the immediate vicinity where when some, if not all, of the bodies were placed. That’s good news!!! My only regret is that it was not thought of sooner.

    Sleuthing is correct…keep things simple!!! If this case is over analyzed then issues can become lost in the shuffle. I believe the person or persons that committed these crimes is very complacent right now and actually believes he/she is getting away with something but I also believe that his/her world is about to come crumbling down. But as noted before, an arrest is only the beginning, then we have the trial, and defense attorneys, and experts and everyone trying to get the person/persons responsible off and/or a lighter sentence using mitigating circumstances. You can expect that a change of venue motion will be filed by defense attorneys but more than likely the trial will still take place in Jeff Davis Parish but an out of town jury, probably from Alexandria/Baton Rouge will be brought in. The reason for this is because locals do not already have a pre-conceived notion about innocence or guilt. Also, they are presumed innocent until proven guilty.

    We (our investigative team) are also very very cautious about who we question and how we conduct our questioning. We cannot pay witnesses for information, we cannot lead witnesses during questioning, we cannot badger witnesses for information. The reason for this is because the defense attorney will say that the evidence/testimony is tainted and fight very hard to disqualify the evidence/testimony. That is my only fear about this entire investigation is that evidence/testimony somehow becomes tainted, either on our side or LE’s side, as we all observed in the OJ Simpson trial. We take every precaution possible not to taint any evidence/testimony and I believe that LE is doing the same. We surely don’t want someone to get off on a technicality. However, many technicalities can still result in a conviction using the “harmless error” rule but we don’t take those chances.

    So until then, we know that somebody somewhere has information. We don’t know what they are scared of but I can and will guarantee this…if anyone has any information whatsoever and wants to turn it in and it is viable information, We will place armed guards to protect the witness 24 hours a day until the person/persons are arrested. There is also a chance that if a person does come forward, we can appeal to the governor to place the person is a witness protection program enforced by the Louisiana State Police and/or the State Attorney General’s Office. Local LE cannot offer protection because of lack of manpower. So if someone has information come forward and we’ll do what it takes to protect the informant.

    • I did not miss this announcement, for this all it’s own could move the case forward quite a bit…..I hope there is greater news soon… I bet they are enjoying to help solve this piece of the puzzle up there in NY. That may help get more notarity to the case also.

      KM wrote:

      “Just an update, we are having some luck with satellite imaging and I spoke to New York this morning and they are coming up with images of some vehicles that were in the immediate vicinity where when some, if not all, of the bodies were placed. That’s good news!!! My only regret is that it was not thought of sooner.”

  26. Maybe that last paragraph needs to be stated in that interview, and not by the Sheriff either. I’m thinking in Brittany’s interview stating, Menard said, “come forward and you WILL BE protected..etc…”

    Brittany, when it is printed, it is almost worth the time to go give it out door to door, both NORTH and SOUTH. That’s if you don’t have to pay for it. That would also show YOU MEAN BUISINESS! I would help, hell I can use the exercise.LOL

  27. 🙂 brownie…you crack me up LOL.

    I think that’s a couple of good ideas you have though….I volunteer to come help pass them out too!

  28. Has anyone heard about the lady from Lake Arthur that was killed, her name was Linda Bonin?

    • jpwatcher-I am almost sure I heard on Ch 3 or 10 Layfatte that she is the woman who was killed in Crowley by some juveniles.

  29. 3 juveniles were arrested. Cops saying it was drug related. The woman was sexually assaulted with an object as well.

  30. why would someone hold back information…i mean think about it…no one would know…i suggest anyone who wants to talk send information to the fbi or kirk menard…the killer find out?…noway….his arse would be caught fast…

    ..if someone is holding info and not telling then they are doing it for a reason and surely it isnt because they scared of being caught telling…they holding cause they are an accessory…..

  31. I have thought about it, db. Frequently info would only be known by the killer and close associates, family members etc. but most are in denial. The people think surely they are wrong and to accuse or to lay blame on someone they love or like is akin to treason.

    What these people need to do is truly examine behaviors and read up. Spend the time with a list of pros and cons and let their hinkey meters judge. Then, turn in info anonymously to the FBI. Let the ball fall in their court.

    It isn’t simple when other relations are involved but most people want to do the right thing. They need the impetuous to go forward and usually money isn’t the motivator.

  32. I agree that denial can be an issue, especially if they suspect a close relative, question them, and are lied to. The lies give them reason to remain in denial, but the thing is if you have enough suspicions to question someones behavior and your are too close to be objective, it is better to dig down deep and let others make that call for you. Alert others even if it is a suspicion and let the chips fall where they may.

    Also, if someone does have knowledge and is not reporting it, they do need to be made aware they are Obstructing justice and can be charged, for that or accessory, accessory to cover up crime–I am not in Law, but I expect the Da would come up with a number of things to charge them with.

    Although, in our case, a few people did blatantly get away with lying to the FBI, on the stand in a court of law and more. The LE, FBI is protected by law when they get on the stand and lie to the courts. This seems so unfair, but is also a reality.

    So you really never know how safe anyone is when dealing with a court of law.

    Sorry to get off subject there. Justice will end up being a long process once in the hands of the courts.

  33. Mr. Menard– I hope you don’t mind me dwelling on your close encounter, but when I first asked you to walk us through that, the reason I was interested in the weather conditions was because that would have an effect on the lighting conditions from the moon. When Brittney Gary went missing there was minimal moonlight and the moon was full beginning November 13. I don’t know if you can disclose the precise night of the encounter, but when you say ” basically the week before she was found” , it leads me to believe you are saying it was some time aound November 8th which would make more sense to me than during the days immediately before she was found on a Saturday November 15th because if the killer was careful to approach her when there was the least amount of moon, then the killer would also be interested in disposing of the body well before the moon was full on November 13th. However, I could be wrong about that since Saturday, the 15th, is the weekend, you might also have meant some time between Monday and Friday of the week of the 10th. That would surprise me though since the killer is mainly an orgainized one.

    You say the weather was clear. You also say ” we both recognized it as a truck” , but then you say ” it appeared too be a dark blue pickup, but we can’t be sure because we’ve only a split second to notice when the dust cleared”. At the moment that dust cleared, was the pickup truck still on Lacour so that your view would be only of the rear of the truck? Were you close enough for your lights to reflect on the truck at all (for example the chrome) or were you making that assessment with only the benefit of the moonlight? Finally, did you and your sidekick both think it was dark blue from the getgo without discussion or was that something only one of you thought ? I may ( once again) be reading too much into your choice of words, but your phrasing does suggest not so much a disagreement as a difference in perception on that point which could be explained in a number of ways, but rather than me elaborating alternate explanations and violate the rules on questioning you stated awhile ago, I will ask if it would be alright for you to answer those three questions.

    • Sleuthing-It would have been the weekend prior to Brittany being found…on November 8, 2008. Mechanics can tel by the taillights if a vehicle is a truck, car or SUV. The vehicle turned left heading towards Castex landing and we did notice the vehicle turn, however, we were so far behind that the only glare we had through the darkness was when the vehicle hit their brake lights and we were able to observe shortly from that glare a color that appeared to be dark blue and the vehicle turn left off of Lacour Road towards Castex. It was on a weekend and not on a weekday so I would say that it was on the 8th of November, 2008 when we spotted the vehicle. The truck was blue from both of our perceptions.

  34. Hey Sleuthing888,

    I am a diehard fan of Occam’s Razor. It is a simple principle that almost always holds true in solving crimes. The fact that there appear to be two kinds of killers here, coupled with the fact that we do not know if all seven were murdered, muddies things up a bit. We do know that all seven were dumped, leading us to believe that, if not murdered, they at least died in the presence of the same one or two people. At least one of the dumpers is organized and a murderer. If there is a second dumper, he is apparently unorganized. This could possibly be the first dumper still but we don’t know that yet.

    I am not LE, just an interested internet hack kicking things around with others that are also interested. I sometimes miss the obvious. It is helpful to me to read others opinions and observations. Based on this I am still unsure what to think about whether it is a single or multiple perps. You obviously have some kind of formal training in your field that helps you cut through the BS and organize information rationally, leading to the next set of questions. I look forward to reading your thoughts on the single/multiple aspect as well as other thoughts you post.

    While you gather and place your thoughts in order on this, I will ask another question of you. What are your thoughts, based on what we know so far, of the likelihood of another victim in the near future?

  35. Red Ranger– I find your comments interesting as well. As intriguing a question as you pose about whether there is likely to be another victim in the near future, I will have to take a pass on the question, remembering whenever one wants to help, be sure first to do no harm. I think you and most everyone else on this website are very well intentioned in what is expressed here, and my own motivation stems in part from what the former F.B.I. profiler, Tom Strentz, said in his interview about the killer may be smarter than me, but he is not smarter than us. I do hope and pray that the person or persons responsible for any or all of the seven deaths in Jeff Davis parish are caught soon or if not caught, die or are incarcerated for other reasons or incapacitated before anyone else is harmed. I also hope Kirk Menard responds to my earlier questions. As to your earlier questions, I am still mulling over the matter. You do ask tough questions.

  36. I keep thinking about the one or more killers and I have decided that there is one killer. Although he acted somewhat differently in 2 murders the victims shared commonality. He was more violent with them. His motivation is in his own mind but the difference was apparent.

    I think this guy is white, a redneck and a loser.He may be a substance abuser but not at the time he does the murders.He controls the victims with substances as his whole purpose is murder. I am not sure if he rapes them but he does humiliate them in death and that may be his goal.

    A family member may be aware of some of his hatred of prostitutes, drug users and blacks but more than likely they share the same views. The family member would paint the picture with the same broad brush.They may be aware of a violent temper and/or an ex-wife or GF who expressed this in the past but was ignored. This guy will be under employed for the most part and has been for years.Average IQ not a budding Einstein.

    So, I put it out there. The covering is home grown IMO. Denial is a better word but obstruction of justice could apply. Think of the Anthony case.

  37. Characteristics of a Serial Killer: What Separates You from Murders?

    As a person we all will experience rage or inappropriate sexual instincts, but for some reason we have a barrier that keeps us from doing the unspeakable. Whether you call it morality or if its attributed to social programming, these blocks keep us abiding the law. After much research and
    psychological evaluations it has been noted that these blocks have been trampled down in the psychopathic killer. These men and women have become virtual slaves to these beastly appetites. They no longer are able to resist the uncontrollable urge to torture, rape and murder often innocent people. Research has indicated that there are four types of serial killer.

    Type of serial killer

    Visionary Motive- This type is insane or psychotic; often they hear voices that tell them to commit the crime and they see visions

    Mission Oriented- They show no psychosis to the outside world, However they have a need to rid the world of what they see as immoral or unworthy. Usually preying on groups of people such as prostitutes, homosexuals, young women, and children)

    Thrill Oriented- These killers often kill for the fun of it. they get the a high off killing and are sadistic. Killing for the excitement.

    Lust Killer- This killer will kill for the pure turn on of it. They will get off on torturing their victim. In fact the more heinous the torture the more aroused they get. Unlike most of the other types they are in touch with reality.

    Characteristics of a serial killer

    Some of the personality traits that researchers have found in a majority of serial killers:

    Many are white men between the ages of 25 and 35

    Income did not matter whether high or low.

    They have at least an average if not high intelligence

    Usually they were married with children.

    Some are organized while others are unorganized. This characterizing can also be categorized by things that went on in the childhood years.

    While many believe that serial killers are from the “wrong side of the tracks”, there are many from well of families as well.

    Organized vs Unorganized

    Organized killers usually follow these physical, emotional, and environmental types:

    ORGANIZED MURDERERS- Have at least an average if not above average intelligence, are socially competent, preferred skilled work and are sexually competent. They also have a high birth order status and their fathers work was usually stable, however, their discipline was often inconsistent.
    They are able to control their mood during the crime and often use alcohol during the crime. Stress was a large factor in their lives, followed their crimes in the news. Most were living with a partner as well. They also had good mobility as far as a vehicle and often changed jobs or left town.

    DISORGANIZED MURDERERS- Often had a below average intelligence and were not very social. They preferred unskilled work, and were often sexually incompetent. They often did not have a good role model as their fathers work was often unstable. In terms of discipline they often endured very harsh punishment as a child. They are very anxious during the committing of their crime, and do not use alot of alcohol. Disorganized murders often live close to the crimes and have low stress in their lives. They are also not very interested in the media of their crimes. However they do often have a significant change in behavior.

    What do they look for in a victim

    Serial killers look for someone they can over power because they enjoy the suffering of their victims. In fact they may torture their victim for several days to obtain as much pleasure as they possibly can.

    Most victims seem to be chosen at random, however some serial killers prefer to stick with a specific group; for example young women, prostitutes, gays, or children.

    Serial killers select the victim then will fantasize about the murder prior to carrying it out.

    They look for victims that share personality traits or physical traits.

    Childhood characteristics of a serial killer

    Many researchers have found similar things that serial killers have gone through as a child, such as:

    A history of sexual and physical abuse

    Either had no father figure because the father left prior to the age of 12 or the father was domineering and abusive

    Committed delinquent acts such as setting fires, theft, and cruelty to animals

    Where not all researchers agree to all the above profiles there are many that believe these are the dominate traits. In the case of Ted Bundy profilers say he did not match most of these however he did fit some of them. This is often the case in every day world. Not every one will fit in every where. Some of the other traits they found in many of the serial killers that they interviewed and studied are bed wetting even after the age of 12, fire starting and animal abuse.

  38. There are suspects out there. Some have been arrested but let go due to lack of evidence. It amazes me that women still hang out around these guys.

    While there is no proof he actually ever said it, a quote is often attributed to Albert Einstein. “Insanity is doing the same things over and over again and expecting different results.”

  39. I just heard a line on CSI that made me think of this case. “The problem with the obvious makes you overlook the evidence”. Boy, I wish we had some snippets of evidence.

  40. I believe that there are people out there that either know what happened or saw what happened and are afraid to come forward. Im convinced, that in a small town like this, someone knows something.

  41. Brittany, What do you know about the candle light visual?

  42. Teresa Gary is setting this up she is wanting to have it on mother’s day @ the interstate park not sure of the time

  43. I saw she had jars out to collect money for the visual. What help is she needing financialy?

  44. She has put out jars to collect funds for the visual, what exspenses does she need help with?

  45. Got this from avery reliable source…This past week,LE came to the house on Andrew St. on two different days.Don’t know what that was all about.Just wondering?

  46. They have a myspace in memory of Brittney and this is on it


    They want to get candles,balloons etc. but I am sure you could contact them If not let me know

  47. Was the truck on Lacour road at the same location that zeno’s body found?

    • I sent your question to kirk, as im sure you were anxious for an answer, he replied “it was the road before where they located zeno’s body, in other words, you can go straight or turn right or left and the truck turned left.”

  48. Thanks Brit. I am not so good on the computer, just got my first one. Do you have more info on the visual or shirts.

    • The vigil is supposed to be being put together by Theresa Gary. I was shopping last weekend and I saw her in the store. I asked her about it and she told me that there was still lots to do to get the vigil in order and they didnt have very much together. I offered my help and to purchase some things, but I havent heard from her again. I know that jars were set out by her to help out with the expenses, but not much has been collected. She made the comment of asking the local businesses to donate tapered candles, balloons, string, etc. She also stated that a permit had to be purchased to hold it at the I-10 Park. I again, offered my services, but I havent heard anything back yet.

      The sample for the t-shirts should be ready this week and we will be able to go and take a look and see if thats how we want them or if they need to be changed. I had an interview with The Times Of Southwest La this morning and they are also going to publicize the t-shirts and state in the article what the money is being raised for. I have also talked to g8trgrl from this blog, and she has offered free advertising for the shirts as well.

  49. Let me know how they come out. Maybe would could meet once their done.
    We all need to be notified when funds are being raised for all the girls. I would feel beter about things like the visual, if we were all included. On the shirts please remember we are all from jeff davis parish, but not all in Jennings. Thanks, my prayers with you. My thought is maybe a contact person for raising funds, for any kind of cause.

  50. Brittany, ask the people putting the shirt design together for you if they would mind emailing a jpeg file of the design (once approved) to g8 for posting on the site…they should be able to do that rather easily, if you all are interested.

    I do graphic design and photo editing if any of the family members have a particular picture of thier loved
    one that you would like cleaned up or enhanced. I would be glad to do that for each of the victims families.

    God Bless everyone for all the hard work.

  51. Brittany I am the caretaker of a christian camp ground in Lake Arthur I am considering asking the collition quire if they would do a performance fund raiser for the reward fund. And having special speakers for the event. We could even show slide shows of our family pictures. Speakers such as ministers, priest, and maybe some family members. We could also sale some of the shirts at that time. It would probably have to be in July. Give me your thoughts.

  52. So, who won the mayor’s race?

  53. Where is everybody?

  54. Terry Duhon won with1570 votes. This represented 72%.
    2195 people voted for mayor. 1570 are happy with the way things are, 625 wanted change, and the rest did not care enough to vote.

  55. Thank you for your response.

  56. Mr. Menard– Thank you for the reply. I am beginning to understand why you said you think the truck was dark blue, but we can’t be sure. You could not make any assessment of the color of the truck until you saw the brake lights as the truck approached Hwy 1126. This somewhat illuminating break… or should I say brake… in the case led you and your mechanic investigator to believe the truck may have been dark blue because that is how it appeared to you.

    Have you consulted anyone with expertise in the physics of light? Here is why I ask. I found on the internet a discussion on colors that said this: ” If a Blue object only had Red light shine on it, what color would it appear? It would look black because it abosrbs Red light. Since there is no Blue light to reflect it can’t look Blue”.

    We know the moon was slighly better than a half moon on November 8, 2008, and you have not indicated there were any surrounding lights to aid your perception. It does appear to me that the only light relfecting off the back of the truck was from the brake lights. Fortunately, there does not appear to be a wide range of variance in the color of brake lights. Red is red. So… my question to you is whether you and sidekick have ever been asked to sit down in front of a computer with a program that goes through the various colors offered by manufacturers with the lighting being only that provided by a red light?
    I have read enough on this blog to know you are open minded and will understand that I am not doubting what you saw, but rather I am questioning how to interpret what you saw, as suggested by the following:

    Color is not a property that is a physical part of the things we see, but the effects of light bouncing off or passing through those physical things. Only the light that enters the eye from an object determines what “color” is seen.
    Light is necessary to see the world around us. In order to see an object, light must shine on it, and then be reflected or transmitted from the object to our eyes. (The light shining on the object may come directly from light source, or may be reflected from other surfaces onto the object.) It is the light reflected or transmitted from it to our eyes that determines the color we perceive it to be.
    A white object reflects almost all of the light falling on it.
    A black object absorbs almost all of the light falling on it and reflects very little to our eyes. Consequently we see the absence of color, or black. (The object or surface must reflect SOME light or we would not be able to see it at all.) Most colored objects contain pigments that cause matter to appear colored by absorbing certain colors of light and reflecting the rest. We see the colors that are reflected back to our eyes. For example, when white light shines on a green leaf, the chlorophyll pigment in the leaf absorbs most of the colors that make up white light and reflects only the green.

    The retina contains specialized cells that are sensitive to light. When light from some scene enters the eye and is imaged in the retina, the light sensitive cells absorb some of the light. The absorption of light by these cells initiates a series of electrical impulse signals that move from the light-sensitive cells along a pathway to the visual cortex region of the brain. The processing of the signals in the brain results in our perception of the light. There are two types of light-sensitive cells on the retina. They are the rods and the cones. The rods are only functional under dim light conditions like, for example, the conditions outside at night. We receive no information about the colors of objects from the rods. The cones are most functional under bright light conditions; they do not function very well under dim light condition. When cones absorb light, the information sent to the brain concerns information that enables us to perceive both the intensity and the color of the light. There are three different types of cone cells. Each type of cone cell absorbs light from a different part of the spectrum. For example, one type of cone cells will absorb a large fraction of light in the violet and blue part of the spectrum, but will absorb very little in the remaining part of the spectrum. Therefore, when blue light enters the eye and strikes this type of cone cell on the retina, there will be a large response— a large signal transmitted to the brain. On the other hand, if red light strikes this type of cone, there is almost no response. We will call this type of cone cell a “blue-sensitive” cone. The graph shown on the previous page is a sketch of a curve showing the relative response of the “blue-sensitive” cone as a function of the spectral color of the light striking it. In addition to the “ blue-sensitive” cones, there are two other types of cones, which we call the “green-sensitive” cones and the “red-sensitive” cones. Their response as a function of spectral color are also shown in the previous sketch. Note that what we refer to as the “green-sensitive” cones actually respond to a wide range of spectral colors, not just green. We use the terms “green-sensitive” and “red-sensitive” mainly for convenience.

  57. sleuthing-Even if I am sure about a color, I will use the term “appears” because many factors influence the intensity of a color. These include the physical properties of the stimulus itself as well as the viewing conditions (color and amount of illumination, surrounding colors, etc.) All of these physical and perceptual factors together determine our perception of color appearance. One item I did not mention in my posting was that we did not just depend on the taillights but we also hit our bright lights and used a spotlight as the truck was turning.

    It takes about 1/10 of a second to perceive any visual stimulus. But that is the latency for the signal to reach awareness. But the visual system can follow changes, such as flicker, at very fast rates depending on their color and intensity. So even though there is a lag for the signal to reach consciousness, the visual system itself can follow rapid change.

    Your question is hard to answer because the answer depends on the state of adaptation of the eye and the intensity of the flash of light. It really doesn’t matter how brief a flash of light is if it is bright enough because the response of the eye is accumulated over time.

    But it is safe to say that under certain certain laboratory conditions, one can show that red and green are perceived more quickly than blue and yellow and that white/black differences are the fastest. But under normal viewing conditions, these differences will not be observed.

    For night time operations, I suggest to my investigators that dark color vehicles are used and during day time operations I suggest that light color vehicles are used, its all about perception.

    If you need to see directly in front of you or see detail you need red. The center 1.5% of your retina (the fovea) which provides you with most detailed vision is packed almost exclusively with red sensitive cones.
    This is the same area that has no rods and is responsible for the night blind spot. There are fewer total green sensitive cones than red. The number of blue sensitive cones is very small compared to green and red.

    This dual-receptor system allows the human eye to maintain sensitivity over a large range of ambient light levels. Between the limits of maximal photopic vision and minimal scotopic vision, the eye can function rather effectively to changes in brightness of as much as 1,000,000,000 times. The sensitivity of the eye automatically adjusts to changes in illumination. The dimmest light in which the rods can function is equivalent to ambient conditions of an overcast night with no moonlight. The dimmest light in which the cones can function is roughly equivalent to a night with 50% moonlight. a white which can just barely be seen by the rods must be increased in brightness 1,000 times before it becomes visible to the cones. The light intensity of the sun is approximately 30,000 times that of the moon, yet the eye can function well in bright sunlight as well as in dim moonlight.

    Fyi, we do use night vision goggles and magnifiers when working at night and as I noted earlier, we also use Q-beam spotlights as well as our high beam lights when needed. In your question, you also have to consider distance from what the eye is observing. While we were a good ways away from the vehicle, we both observed what appeared to be a blue pickup when the high beams were activated and the Q-beam was shot just as the truck was turning. I train my investigators to concentrate on the white portion of the brake lights (the center portion) and not the outer layer of the red lens. The reason being is because we concentrate on the FAA rules and regulations for lights and perception and when testifying in a federal case once we gave our methodology when a defense attorney asked one of our investigators show she could perceive a light blue color from approximately 100 yards away and our methodology was that the place she was had red illumination but white light surrounding the illumination and concentration on the white light for a split second will cause the eye to focus and distinguish colors more effectively, as noted in our testing of FAA guidelines. Primary visual cues are the most perceptually conspicuous
    features of an object. The human visual system uses
    primary cues to detect critical information without a
    searching effort. Brightness and blinking/fl ashing are the
    top choices of primary cues for visual perception.

    Nothing is fail-safe sleuthing and yes you are correct, there’s a chance that we are mistaken because of the lack of illumination of the light, even with the high beams and the Q-beams that was activated briefly. However, if we are called to testify as to colors, all we can give is our methodology for distinguishing colors during night time since a predominate amount of our work is at night and our investigators are trained to distinguish colors at night using a wide range of technology.

  58. A good article to read is about the ‘Red-Light Myth. Our methodology for distinguishing colors at night follow the references given since we use plenty of devices that allow us to distinguish colors at night.

  59. That is an excellent answer! Thank you very much.

  60. Darn….i want 2 college credits for reading sleuthing and Kirk’s comments.

    Fabulous questions and points you touched on sleuthing888 and an unexpected and captivating response from Kirk…..y’all are both awesome.

  61. g8trgirl you’re right these are some great responses from both of them and with minds like this at work this case is sure to be solved quickly. Both sluething888 and Kirk put a lot of thought and science into their responses.

    Speaking of Kirk, I’ve read some of his published writings in a few trade magazines and something really grabbed my attention. It was when he said that the “appearance of impropriety is just as bad as the act itself.” It was yesterday or day before, I can’t remember when but I happened to be passing down Mckinley street in Jennings going to my sisters home and I spotted Terry Guillory, the warden, sitting outside of Billy connor’s home speaking with Billy and Hannah Connor. Wasn’t Billy and his mother recently arrested for drugs and correct me if I’m wrong but wasn’t Hannah Connor arrested for her part in the murder of Kristen Lopez? Also, isn’t this Frankie Richard’s former residence? Just checking my facts because it appeared that Mr. Guillory was in uniform and it did not appear to be official business and even if it was official business I don’t believe that a warden of a jail has any business to conduct with the public. I know that if one of my friends had been suspected or involved in something as serious as murder I would distance myself from them until everything calms down. Just wondering what is going on.

    • Great info….for others to consider. I can’t wait to see what they make out of that meeting. You must of been rather shocked if you recognized all those characters at once. Thanks for sharing with everyone. You should go walking more often!!!!!!!!!

      g8- 2 college credits sounds worthy for those articles…too funny 🙂

      I took 2 semesters on color in college and did not learn all that…some of it- which helped me to comprehend the post- but they are very scientific.

      For a minute, I was wondering if Kirk would know what slueth was talking about–impressed, he did!!!

      Aren’t we so proud of thier efforts.

  62. Wow. Y’all have been doing some serious cypherin’ and gozintas. I’ve done OK following and am ready for my credits.

    My question may be a little off the current subject but here goes.

    What does it take to get someone with information that will lead to a conviction to step forward?

    Mr. Menard has offered his services for around the clock protection. So far, no luck. Could they have post-conviction fears from the friends or associates of the killer?

    Money has been offered. It is not enough money to retire on but it is enough to substantially change the lives of anyone who lives in the target area. Maybe it is not enough money yet. Maybe the next time Gov. Jindal has an extra $250,000 he could add it to the reward. It should be clear that it is for information that leads to a conviction.

    Many times recently, rewards have been offered and then not paid due to a whim or technicality. A person who is willing to step up and tell what they know needs to be assured that the reward will come their way. DTL was reported to the TF a few times in BR by the same lady. They reneged on the reward because she did not give specific info, just his name. (BS)
    Also, see Roy Kronk. But I digress…

    What does it take to have someone step up and say what they know? We all know someone knows.

  63. RR-Sorry will respond shortly.

  64. Hmmm….I wonder what Mr. Guillory was doing at that house? Talking to Billy and Hannah Connor. Very good observation, glad there are eyes out there besides LE, we all need to keep our eyes open and be very observant. That might just be the very key that opens this case up is the few of us that are talking about this case on here all the time. Keep up the good work everyone. Hey lets see what we can find out on this little situation on Mr Guillory our “warden”
    This is what G8trgirl posted January 7 2009 this and added a article, it is in reference to Billy and Hannah Connor

    • another observer-good observation…I wonder if anyone else observed this? I do know this…if I had a friend or friends (unless I was representing them in a professional capacity) I would distance myself from those friends if they were arrested for drugs, implicated in a homicide or for that matter any crime. I would still speak to them but in public where I cannot be guilty by association…sometimes when people are implicated in serious dealings, those that are in the same circle/proximity are sometimes associated with the same conduct. I’m glad you like my statement about “the appearance of impropriety is just as bad as the act itself” and that statement actually comes from the Judiciary Commission relating to judges. Judges should avoid the appearance of impropriety at all costs.

  65. Mr. Menard– Again, your answer to the question about the color of the truck was excellent. The families of the victims are very fortunate too have you working on this matter and your tireless professional efforts show through on this blog. While I would acknowledge some kind words on this blog about my questions, it is your professional efforts that I believe will lead to some answers. Having said that, I hope you don’t mind one last question on the subject of the truck and then I am done with that topic. It is a much simpler question, and probably easier given what you did observe.
    With the benefit of the red taillights, the bright lights of your own vehicle ,the Q-beam and some moonlight, do you know whether the rear bumper of the truck was a) chrome, b) silver or c) a dark color. I realize that the question does not narrow the field of trucks enough to identify the perp, but it does narrow the field of trucks. My own personal observations is all pickup trucks have one of these three types of bumpers, and even if the question only narrows the field by two thirds, well that is something.

    • Sleuthing-thanks and excellent and challenging questions and points of view on your part, I enjoy being challenged because it allows me to dissect other possibilities that we did not previous think about and assists us in thinking “outside the box.”

      We did not get a look at the bumper and the split second we had to observe the vehicle, when we determined that we would not be able to obtain a license plate number, we concentrated on the color of the vehicle and figured we would start with that.

      We do not question individuals expecting to solve the case with one witness…what we are looking for is leads to put the pieces together and build a case that will allow LE and the prosecution a logical explanation of who, why, when, where, and how. It has to make sense to some degree. I really wish we could have obtained a license plate number. My question is if someone didn’t have anything to hide…why not keep coming down the road…not turn off your lights and speed the opposite direction. Again, maybe it was hunters and got scared and ran away but again, perhaps it was the person or persons responsible.

  66. New photos uploaded……victim body location sites.

    • Thanks for the pics g8. It proves to me that this is a local serial killer (s) as no one who wasn’t familiar with the area could even find these areas. It is extremely rural.

      No long haul truck driver unless he lives in the area.

  67. g8trgirl the location on crystals sight is wrong. We were only told before about where she was found. We just found out recently the right location. As soon as We can we will change it. It is furthur down the road headed south.

  68. thanks for letting me know that mysterious….i will take the pictures down and wait until we know a more precise location.

  69. g8trgirl-There is a dry creek further south and still further south is a wet creek. A detective explained to me that the dry creek is where Shay was found. The wet creek is further south as well. However, I believe the placement of the cross is why everyone thought that the body placement was wrong in the media but as mysterious acknowledged, the cross was placed at the wrong location. However, still in all, everyone can see the seclusion of the area and the layout of the area.

Comments are closed.